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  • kir3000dyn
    ... schrieb BELOVED OSHO, WE ARE TRYING TO LIVE IN THE HERE AND NOW -- ESPECIALLY IF WE ARE IN POONA. BUT NEVERTHELESS WE SOMETIMES THINK OF THE FUTURE. I ASK
    Nachricht 1 von 4 , 26. Mr. 2005
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      --- Im cologne-sannyas-list@..., OSHOanubhutiMC@a...
      schrieb
      BELOVED OSHO,
      WE ARE TRYING TO LIVE IN THE HERE AND NOW -- ESPECIALLY IF WE ARE IN
      POONA.
      BUT NEVERTHELESS WE SOMETIMES THINK OF THE FUTURE.
      I ASK MYSELF, IF NOBODY ELSE HEARS YOUR VOICE EXCEPT US, WHAT WILL
      HAPPEN IN
      THE YEAR 2017? WHAT MORE CAN WE DO SO THAT YOU WILL BE HEARD AND THE
      BAD
      VISION OF THE YEAR 2017 THAT I HAVE WILL NOT HAPPEN?


      Dhyandeep, the first thing to remember is: do not take
      anything
      seriously. What happens in 2017 is not your concern. One thing is
      certain: you will
      not be there. So who cares? Particularly herenow in Poona! If by
      chance you
      are still alive -- which is very much an impossibility -- still you
      will be
      living in the herenow. The years change, the centuries change, but
      life is always
      here and now.
      Wasting it in thinking about the past... and there are many
      who do
      that. Just on my way here, Shunyo was saying, "Today is Friday..." I
      don't know,
      because what concern have I to remember which day it is, or which
      year, or
      which century? I am herenow.
      Her question was that "This is Friday; Jesus was crucified on
      this
      day. Why is it called Good Friday?" As if, it seems, I have crucified
      Jesus! I am
      not answerable at all. Naturally, the people who had crucified Jesus
      must
      have celebrated. That was their goodbye to Jesus -- "We are finished
      with this
      guy who has been torturing us for so long." It is not a good thing,
      but it is
      not in my hands.
      If it had been in my hands, Jesus needed psychiatric
      treatment. A good
      body stretch until he had forgotten to say that "I am the only
      begotten son
      of God." Then it would certainly have been Good Friday because then
      there would
      have been no Christianity. It is the crucifixion which started the
      greatest
      criminal religion on the earth, Christianity.
      But the Jews were not so sophisticated that they could have
      tolerated
      a young man, only thirty-three years of age, trotting on his donkey
      here and
      there. Never went out of that small place, Judea. And he had a few
      followers --
      every idiot can collect a dozen followers, and he had exactly one
      dozen
      followers.
      Those twelve idiots became twelve apostles, and they followed
      him
      because they had no other business. They were not educated; not a
      single one of
      them was cultured, educated, a rabbi, a learned man. None of them had
      any
      knowledge of the scriptures. And on their own, they knew one thing
      for certain, that
      they could not enter into paradise. They didn't have any
      qualifications. And
      this guy sitting on the donkey says, "If you believe in me, I will
      take you
      into paradise."
      All those fools must have thought, "This is the simplest way.
      Rather
      than becoming a rabbi, a great learned scholar, virtuous, a saint,
      disciplining, torturing yourself... then, too, there is no certainty,
      no guarantee. Nobody
      is saying to you that `I am responsible.' At least this guy says, `I
      am
      taking you. Just believe in me.' And he is not asking anything, not
      even any entry
      fee." And who would not like to see the scene without a ticket?
      There were moments of doubt in their minds also, that God's son
      should not
      sit on a donkey. And they all knew that he was a carpenter's son, but
      what to
      do? He does not listen at all.
      If people had simply tolerated him as a joke, which in fact he
      was --
      a practical joke... People should have laughed. And he was bringing
      such great
      news! They should have enjoyed, entertained him, but they were not
      sophisticated enough. They took him too seriously.
      That's what I am saying:
      The most important thing is not to take anything seriously.
      Jesus took himself very seriously. Even when they were putting him on
      the
      cross, he could have said, "Wait, I have changed my mind!" He carried
      the joke
      too far. In his place, I should have certainly said, "I have changed
      my mind." A
      joke is a joke; one should not take it too seriously.
      And he would have left the Jews and the Romans who crucified
      him in a
      very weird space: What to do? He has changed his mind! But he took
      himself so
      seriously that he allowed them to put him on the cross, nail him on
      the cross.
      Still, he was waiting for God and looking upwards. And the sky by
      chance was
      completely empty.
      His idea was that on a white cloud... Obviously, it has to be
      a white
      cloud when God comes. He will come thundering and show all the Jews --
      "You
      are stupid, you are killing my own son and you think you believe in
      God?" But
      nothing seemed to happen.
      Thousands of people had gathered to see -- the one and only
      chance;
      for the first time somebody has claimed to be the only begotten son.
      And he was
      certainly serious because even on the cross he did not just say, "It
      is
      enough. My father's name is Joseph, my mother's name is Mary, and I
      don't know who
      is this God." He had enjoyed enough, he was a celebrity in his own
      small
      country, but he waited....
      And the Jewish way of putting somebody on a cross is such
      that a
      person can be alive on the cross at least forty-eight hours, because
      they don't
      kill you by breaking the neck. They kill you by nailing the hands and
      the feet
      to the cross, so drop by drop the blood oozes out. It is the most
      cruel and
      ugly way of taking revenge. But that was good in a way; it gave forty-
      eight hours
      for the person to change his mind.
      But Jesus wouldn't change. On the contrary, he shouted at God!
      Thousands of people are there, everybody wants to know God, to see
      God -- so much one
      has heard about God, and never a single witness. And this great
      opportunity... people had come from faraway places.
      Jesus shouted at God -- "Father!"... but he still did not
      forget to
      call him "father." He was really an absolute crackpot. "Father, have
      you
      forgotten me? have you forsaken me? Why is the miracle not
      happening?"
      It was all his fiction -- his God, who will descend on a white
      cloud;
      that he will save him and show the world that Jesus is his only
      son, "and
      anybody who wants to be saved from this miserable suffering life and
      enter into
      the eternal bliss of paradise has to believe in my son. He is my
      agent. You
      cannot directly contact me. Call him, and if he chooses you will be
      allowed. Even
      on the Judgment Day when all the dead of the past and the future will
      be
      raised from their graves..."
      It is going to be a tremendous crowd. The world has never seen
      such a
      crowd. I don't think the earth can contain that much crowd. Five
      billion
      people are alive today and man has existed for at least four million
      years. The
      crowd will be so much, and Jesus will choose: "Who are my people?"
      But nothing happened. Fictions are fictions.There is no God
      and there
      is no God's son.
      And all the messengers are megalomaniacs who need to be
      immediately
      caught and treated before they get out of hand.
      But they have founded religions, they have written great
      scriptures.
      They have done such harm to humanity.
      So there are many who are concerned about the past....

      Now Shunyo is asking, "Why is this day called Good Friday?"
      Good for
      the Jews because they got rid of Jesus and good for Christians
      because this is
      the beginning of their religion. But as far as we are concerned it is
      just
      ordinary Friday. There is nothing special in it, neither good nor
      bad....

      (Snip)

      Osho

      From:
      YAA-HOO! The Mystic Rose
      Chapter #13
      Chapter title: Just ordinary friday
      1 April 1988 in Pune, India

      ***********************************************************

      Love
      Surendra

      Osho Anubhuti Meditation Center
      Digital Osho Center in Cyberspace
      (Anubhuti = Experiencing )
      Email: OSHOanubhutiMC@a...
      --- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht ---
    • kir3000dyn
      Oh sorry, das war nicht einer der Beiträge, in dem die 9 Sannyas-Eigenschaften beschrieben wurden. Die sind nämlich hier: 755DAS HERZ SUTRA - SANNYAS: SICH
      Nachricht 2 von 4 , 16. Feb. 2007
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        Oh sorry,

        das war nicht einer der Beiträge, in dem die 9 Sannyas-Eigenschaften beschrieben wurden.

        Die sind nämlich hier:

        755DAS HERZ SUTRA - SANNYAS: SICH DEM STROM ÜBERLASSEN (9)
        ... erste Frage: Geliebter Osho, was sind die Eigenschaften eines Sannyasin? Und die neunte ist Transzendenz - Tao. Kein ... ÜBERLASSEN - Damit ist diese Folge "Die neun Eigenschaften eines Sannyasin" beendet. Bisher sind erschienen: 1. Offenheit ...

        Aber  andererseits, irgendwie war es genau die richtige Stelle, die Existens für mich rausgesucht hat.

        Weil, sie enthält den überaus originellen Kommentar von Osho zu Jesus am Kreuz, den ich seinerzeit auch gelesen hatte, und der mir in letzter Zeit immer wieder im Kopf rumschwirrte, bruchstückhaft.

        Hier habe ich ihn jetzt wieder vollständig, d.h. der Text ist ein wenig zerfleddert übertragen worden, ich hab ihn wieder gerichtet.

        > That's what I am saying:
        > The most important thing is not to take anything seriously.

        > Jesus took himself very seriously. Even when they were putting him on
        > the  cross, he could have said, "Wait, I have changed my mind!" He carried
        > the joke too far. In his place, I should have certainly said, "I have changed
        > my mind."

        > Ajoke is a joke; one should not take it too seriously.
        > And he would have left the Jews and the Romans who crucified
        > him in a very weird space: What to do? He has changed his mind! But he took
        > himself so  seriously that he allowed them to put him on the cross, nail him on
        > the cross.

        > Still, he was waiting for God and looking upwards. And the sky by
        > chance was completely empty.

        > His idea was that on a white cloud... Obviously, it has to be  a white cloud when God > comes. He will come thundering and show all the Jews --

        > "You are stupid, you are killing my own son and you think you believe in
        > God?"

        > But nothing seemed to happen.

        > Thousands of people had gathered to see -- the one and only
        > chance; for the first time somebody has claimed to be the only begotten son.
        > And he was certainly serious because even on the cross he did not just say,

        "It  is  enough. My father's name is Joseph, my mother's name is Mary, and I
        > don't know who  is this God." He had enjoyed enough, he was a celebrity in his own
        > small  country, but he waited....

        > And the Jewish way of putting somebody on a cross is such that a person can be alive on the cross at least forty-eight hours, because they don't  kill you by breaking the neck. They kill you by nailing the hands and the feet to the cross, so drop by drop the blood oozes out. It is the most cruel and ugly way of taking revenge. But that was good in a way; it gave forty- eight hours  for the person to change his mind.

        > But Jesus wouldn't change. On the contrary, he shouted at God!

        > Thousands of people are there, everybody wants to know God, to see  God -- so much one has heard about God, and never a single witness. And this great
        > opportunity... people had come from faraway places.

        > Jesus shouted at God -- "Father!"... but he still did not forget to
        > call him "father." He was really an absolute crackpot. "Father, have
        > you forgotten me? have you forsaken me? Why is the miracle not
        > happening?"

        > It was all his fiction -- his God, who will descend on a white cloud;
        > that he will save him and show the world that Jesus is his only son, "and
        > anybody who wants to be saved from this miserable suffering life and
        > enter into the eternal bliss of paradise has to believe in my son. He is my
        > agent. You cannot directly contact me. Call him, and if he chooses you will be
        > allowed. Even on the Judgment Day when all the dead of the past and the future will
        > be raised from their graves..."
        > It is going to be a tremendous crowd. The world has never seen such a
        > crowd. I don't think the earth can contain that much crowd. Five billion
        > people are alive today and man has existed for at least four million years. The
        > crowd will be so much, and Jesus will choose: "Who are my people?"

        > But nothing happened. Fictions are fictions.There is no God
        > and there is no God's son.
        > And all the messengers are megalomaniacs who need to be
        > immediately caught and treated before they get out of hand.

        > But they have founded religions, they have written great  scriptures.
        > They have done such harm to humanity.

        > So there are many who are concerned about the past....


        > Osho
        >
        > From:
        > YAA-HOO! The Mystic Rose
        > Chapter #13
        > Chapter title: Just ordinary friday
        > 1 April 1988 in Pune, India
        >


      • kir3000dyn
        Noch mal sorry, das war wieder nicht die richtige Stelle. So was kann passieren, wenn man Fundstellen einfach kopiert. Also, für den, den s interessiert: Ruf
        Nachricht 3 von 4 , 16. Feb. 2007
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          Noch mal sorry,
          das war wieder nicht die richtige Stelle.

          So was kann passieren, wenn man Fundstellen
          einfach kopiert.

          Also, für den, den's interessiert:

          Ruf doch einfach den Beitrag Nr. 755 auf.

          Dort spricht Osho über die letzte der 9 Sannyas-Eigenschaften,  übersetzt auf Deutsch.

          Und er enthält Hinweise zu den anderen 8.

          Also Chetan, wenn du Putin die Sannyas-schaft  schmackhaft machen  möchtest,  mögest du zuvor prüfen, ob es passt.


          LOve
          Kirana




          --- In HH-sannyas-list@... hat kir3000dyn <no_reply@...> geschrieben:
          >
          > Oh sorry,
          >
          > das war nicht einer der Beiträge, in dem die 9 Sannyas-Eigenschaften
          > beschrieben wurden.
          >
          > Die sind nämlich hier:
          >
          > 755DAS HERZ SUTRA - SANNYAS: SICH DEM STROM ÜBERLASSEN (9)
          > <../../../../../message/755>
          > ... erste Frage: Geliebter Osho, was sind die Eigenschaften eines
          > Sannyasin? Und die neunte ist Transzendenz - Tao. Kein ... ÜBERLASSEN
          > - Damit ist diese Folge "Die neun Eigenschaften eines Sannyasin"
          > beendet. Bisher sind erschienen: 1. Offenheit ...
          >
          > Aber andererseits, irgendwie war es genau die richtige Stelle, die
          > Existens für mich rausgesucht hat.
          >
          > Weil, sie enthält den überaus originellen Kommentar von Osho zu
          > Jesus am Kreuz, den ich seinerzeit auch gelesen hatte, und der mir in
          > letzter Zeit immer wieder im Kopf rumschwirrte, bruchstückhaft.
          >
          > Hier habe ich ihn jetzt wieder vollständig, d.h. der Text ist ein
          > wenig zerfleddert übertragen worden, ich hab ihn wieder gerichtet.
          >
          > > That's what I am saying:
          > > The most important thing is not to take anything seriously.
          >
          > > Jesus took himself very seriously. Even when they were putting him on
          > > the cross, he could have said, "Wait, I have changed my mind!" He
          > carried
          > > the joke too far. In his place, I should have certainly said, "I have
          > changed
          > > my mind."
          >
          > > Ajoke is a joke; one should not take it too seriously.
          > > And he would have left the Jews and the Romans who crucified
          > > him in a very weird space: What to do? He has changed his mind! But he
          > took
          > > himself so seriously that he allowed them to put him on the cross,
          > nail him on
          > > the cross.
          >
          > > Still, he was waiting for God and looking upwards. And the sky by
          > > chance was completely empty.
          >
          > > His idea was that on a white cloud... Obviously, it has to be
          > a white cloud when God > comes. He will come thundering and show all the
          > Jews --
          >
          > > "You are stupid, you are killing my own son and you think you believe
          > in
          > > God?"
          >
          > > But nothing seemed to happen.
          >
          > > Thousands of people had gathered to see -- the one and only
          > > chance; for the first time somebody has claimed to be the only
          > begotten son.
          > > And he was certainly serious because even on the cross he did not just
          > say,
          >
          > "It is enough. My father's name is Joseph, my mother's name is Mary,
          > and I
          > > don't know who is this God." He had enjoyed enough, he was a
          > celebrity in his own
          > > small country, but he waited....
          >
          > > And the Jewish way of putting somebody on a cross is such that
          > a person can be alive on the cross at least forty-eight hours, because
          > they don't kill you by breaking the neck. They kill you by nailing the
          > hands and the feet to the cross, so drop by drop the blood oozes out. It
          > is the most cruel and ugly way of taking revenge. But that was good in a
          > way; it gave forty- eight hours for the person to change his mind.
          >
          > > But Jesus wouldn't change. On the contrary, he shouted at God!
          >
          > > Thousands of people are there, everybody wants to know God, to see
          > God -- so much one has heard about God, and never a single witness. And
          > this great
          > > opportunity... people had come from faraway places.
          >
          > > Jesus shouted at God -- "Father!"... but he still did not
          > forget to
          > > call him "father." He was really an absolute crackpot. "Father, have
          > > you forgotten me? have you forsaken me? Why is the miracle not
          > > happening?"
          >
          > > It was all his fiction -- his God, who will descend on a white
          > cloud;
          > > that he will save him and show the world that Jesus is his only son,
          > "and
          > > anybody who wants to be saved from this miserable suffering life and
          > > enter into the eternal bliss of paradise has to believe in my son. He
          > is my
          > > agent. You cannot directly contact me. Call him, and if he chooses you
          > will be
          > > allowed. Even on the Judgment Day when all the dead of the past and
          > the future will
          > > be raised from their graves..."
          > > It is going to be a tremendous crowd. The world has never seen
          > such a
          > > crowd. I don't think the earth can contain that much crowd. Five
          > billion
          > > people are alive today and man has existed for at least four million
          > years. The
          > > crowd will be so much, and Jesus will choose: "Who are my people?"
          >
          > > But nothing happened. Fictions are fictions.There is no God
          > > and there is no God's son.
          > > And all the messengers are megalomaniacs who need to be
          > > immediately caught and treated before they get out of hand.
          >
          > > But they have founded religions, they have written great
          > scriptures.
          > > They have done such harm to humanity.
          >
          > > So there are many who are concerned about the past....
          >
          >
          > > Osho
          > >
          > > From:
          > > YAA-HOO! The Mystic Rose
          > > Chapter #13
          > > Chapter title: Just ordinary friday
          > > 1 April 1988 in Pune, India
          > >
          >
        • chetan@t-online.de
          HAllo Kirana, ich habe wirklich keinen Schimer, ob Putin von Osho Sannyas erhalten hat. Es war einfach so, das mir viele Stellen aus der Rede sehr meditativ
          Nachricht 4 von 4 , 16. Feb. 2007
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          • 0 Anhang
            HAllo Kirana,
            ich habe wirklich keinen Schimer, ob Putin von Osho Sannyas erhalten hat. Es war einfach so, das mir viele Stellen aus der Rede sehr meditativ vorgekommen sind und ich es für wert gehalten hatte, den Text von Putins Rede im Sannyas-Kreis bekannter zu machen.

            Ausserdem weshalb solte Putin kein Sannyasin sein können. In dieser Rede Putins schwingt alles mit, was du in deiner Bibel an 9 Geboten bzw. Eigenschaften eine Sannyasins vorgefunden hast. Lass die Energie der Worte beim lesen doch einfach mal in deinem Innern mitschwingen. Vielleicht kannst du es dann etwas nachempfinden, was ich meine.
            Wenn ich also anhand Putins Rede zu entscheiden hätte, könnte Putin mehr Sannyasin sein, als jene Sannyasins von denen ich z.b. schräg angemacht und wegen meiner Individualität sogar schon hier in München ausgegrenzt wurde...

            Love
            Chetan
            -----------------------------------------------------

            "kir3000dyn" <no_reply@...> schrieb: Noch mal sorry,
            das war wieder nicht die richtige Stelle.

            So was kann passieren, wenn man Fundstellen
            einfach kopiert.

            Also, für den, den's interessiert:

            Ruf doch einfach den Beitrag Nr. 755 auf.

            Dort spricht Osho über die letzte der 9 Sannyas-Eigenschaften, übersetzt auf Deutsch.

            Und er enthält Hinweise zu den anderen 8.

            Also Chetan, wenn du Putin die Sannyas-schaft schmackhaft machen möchtest, mögest du zuvor prüfen, ob es passt.


            LOve
            Kirana




            --- In HH-sannyas-list@... hat kir3000dyn <no_reply@...> geschrieben:
            >
            > Oh sorry,
            >
            > das war nicht einer der Beiträge, in dem die 9 Sannyas-Eigenschaften
            > beschrieben wurden.
            >
            > Die sind nämlich hier:
            >
            > 755DAS HERZ SUTRA - SANNYAS: SICH DEM STROM ÜBERLASSEN (9)
            > <../../../../../message/755>
            > ... erste Frage: Geliebter Osho, was sind die Eigenschaften eines
            > Sannyasin? Und die neunte ist Transzendenz - Tao. Kein ... ÜBERLASSEN
            > - Damit ist diese Folge "Die neun Eigenschaften eines Sannyasin"
            > beendet. Bisher sind erschienen: 1. Offenheit ...
            >
            > Aber andererseits, irgendwie war es genau die richtige Stelle, die
            > Existens für mich rausgesucht hat.
            >
            > Weil, sie enthält den überaus originellen Kommentar von Osho zu
            > Jesus am Kreuz, den ich seinerzeit auch gelesen hatte, und der mir in
            > letzter Zeit immer wieder im Kopf rumschwirrte, bruchstückhaft.
            >
            > Hier habe ich ihn jetzt wieder vollständig, d.h. der Text ist ein
            > wenig zerfleddert übertragen worden, ich hab ihn wieder gerichtet.
            >
            > > That's what I am saying:
            > > The most important thing is not to take anything seriously.
            >
            > > Jesus took himself very seriously. Even when they were putting him on
            > > the cross, he could have said, "Wait, I have changed my mind!" He
            > carried
            > > the joke too far. In his place, I should have certainly said, "I have
            > changed
            > > my mind."
            >
            > > Ajoke is a joke; one should not take it too seriously.
            > > And he would have left the Jews and the Romans who crucified
            > > him in a very weird space: What to do? He has changed his mind! But he
            > took
            > > himself so seriously that he allowed them to put him on the cross,
            > nail him on
            > > the cross.
            >
            > > Still, he was waiting for God and looking upwards. And the sky by
            > > chance was completely empty.
            >
            > > His idea was that on a white cloud... Obviously, it has to be
            > a white cloud when God > comes. He will come thundering and show all the
            > Jews --
            >
            > > "You are stupid, you are killing my own son and you think you believe
            > in
            > > God?"
            >
            > > But nothing seemed to happen.
            >
            > > Thousands of people had gathered to see -- the one and only
            > > chance; for the first time somebody has claimed to be the only
            > begotten son.
            > > And he was certainly serious because even on the cross he did not just
            > say,
            >
            > "It is enough. My father's name is Joseph, my mother's name is Mary,
            > and I
            > > don't know who is this God." He had enjoyed enough, he was a
            > celebrity in his own
            > > small country, but he waited....
            >
            > > And the Jewish way of putting somebody on a cross is such that
            > a person can be alive on the cross at least forty-eight hours, because
            > they don't kill you by breaking the neck. They kill you by nailing the
            > hands and the feet to the cross, so drop by drop the blood oozes out. It
            > is the most cruel and ugly way of taking revenge. But that was good in a
            > way; it gave forty- eight hours for the person to change his mind.
            >
            > > But Jesus wouldn't change. On the contrary, he shouted at God!
            >
            > > Thousands of people are there, everybody wants to know God, to see
            > God -- so much one has heard about God, and never a single witness. And
            > this great
            > > opportunity... people had come from faraway places.
            >
            > > Jesus shouted at God -- "Father!"... but he still did not
            > forget to
            > > call him "father." He was really an absolute crackpot. "Father, have
            > > you forgotten me? have you forsaken me? Why is the miracle not
            > > happening?"
            >
            > > It was all his fiction -- his God, who will descend on a white
            > cloud;
            > > that he will save him and show the world that Jesus is his only son,
            > "and
            > > anybody who wants to be saved from this miserable suffering life and
            > > enter into the eternal bliss of paradise has to believe in my son. He
            > is my
            > > agent. You cannot directly contact me. Call him, and if he chooses you
            > will be
            > > allowed. Even on the Judgment Day when all the dead of the past and
            > the future will
            > > be raised from their graves..."
            > > It is going to be a tremendous crowd. The world has never seen
            > such a
            > > crowd. I don't think the earth can contain that much crowd. Five
            > billion
            > > people are alive today and man has existed for at least four million
            > years. The
            > > crowd will be so much, and Jesus will choose: "Who are my people?"
            >
            > > But nothing happened. Fictions are fictions.There is no God
            > > and there is no God's son.
            > > And all the messengers are megalomaniacs who need to be
            > > immediately caught and treated before they get out of hand.
            >
            > > But they have founded religions, they have written great
            > scriptures.
            > > They have done such harm to humanity.
            >
            > > So there are many who are concerned about the past....
            >
            >
            > > Osho
            > >
            > > From:
            > > YAA-HOO! The Mystic Rose
            > > Chapter #13
            > > Chapter title: Just ordinary friday
            > > 1 April 1988 in Pune, India
            > >
            >


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